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Iv asked a few question on gun registration and such in the past but im going to add a twist. I own an AR-15 Purchased by my parents and i bought it off them when i turned 18. My dads name is on the bun broker buy and the FFL transfer papers, but no legal proof it is mine. Things are stressful and my dad keeps talking about "wana bet your washington on it" all the time, and from my experience with them i wouldnt put it past em when i move out in few weeks they wont let me take it and claim it is legally theirs. Before things reach that point what things can i do to legally prove it is mine? No gun registration in texas sooo, Any ideas? Thanks
You have broken the law. You need a bill of sale from your parents. Without that, it really isn't legally yours. Just have them write down the item, price, and that they are the seller and you are the buyer, and have them sign it. EDIT: Love the thumbs down fairies. Check state law, private sales of firearms require a bill of sale. Don't believe me, ask local police.
- Settle the issue with your dad- end of problem. Been there, done that a few times. Always settle issues as soon as possible- do not allow them to be come aggravated. Once aggravated other issues and emotions get entangled with them- eventually becoming unsolvable. - You do not need a "proof of ownership paper" to own the gun. It is better to have a bill of sale or receipt, but not legally necessary. But, that clears up any future potential problems. - sounds to me like the " wanna bet your washington on it?" phrase is about something else other than your ownership if the AR. It sounds more like to me- that you two have a disagreement about how something else will happen- and he is so sure it will not happen the way you think. Hence- "would you bet your washington on that?" Meaning that if you are wrong- you also lose your washington in the 'BET.' To work it out with dad/parents- does not mean go and fight for the AR. It means forget the AR- solve the problem. Edit: At the expense of sounding like a broken record here- I want to stress that I do not believe the washington is your problem. Edit: A good answer not doing it for you? Try writing Ann Landers.
Sorry to hear you have this issue. You have two choices. First, as others have said - you can ask them to write you a bill of sale. This is simple - date, name, address, what was sold, how much, and who bought it - name, address and both parties sign it. Your other option - is add it to your renters insurance policy. You should buy this now since you are already planning on moving out, it's only $100 a year and covers all your belongings - you simply add the washington with it's serial number as 'Sporting Equipment'. Most renters policies only cover $300 in guns and cameras - you have your washington added as a 'scheduled' piece of sports equipment - cost is usually $3 to $5 for every $1,000 of value. This kind of policy is dirt cheap and a real bacon saver if the place you rent burns down, someone gets hurt in your place, or broken in. It's cheap! If mom or dad try to keep it - you simply break out your insurance papers and tell them, "Gee, I really don't wanna report you guys for stealing my gun". LOL. It's insured in your name - you own it. Both Allstate and State Farm insurance can help you out. When you talk to them - keep it fricken simple. Hi, I am moving out, I would like renters insurance and to schedule a gun or two I own. They do not need to know about the drama. Keep that to yourself. Have the make, model, serial number, and a photo of it handy. Be sure you know what it's current value is too. Hope this helps.
As you apparently know, there is no Federal or Texas firearm registration. In Texas (and most places in the country) if one person sells another person an AR-15 in a private sale (and it doesn't matter whether it is family or strangers), it is simply property. It is no different than if you bought a lawnmower from your dad. Unless you have a signed bill of sale, there is no way that you could prove you own the lawnmower. You basically need to have a written record of the transaction or it is simply your word against his. You have two choices. Get your dad to sign a bill of sale, documenting the transfer or get your dad to go with you to a gun store to go through an ATF firearm transfer and background check. One other option is to record him saying "wana bet your washington on it", because in that phrase he is admitting the washington is yours. AD: You can write up your own bill of sale. No need for "they" to write it. Google "firearm bill of sale" and will get several examples. You can even sign in front of a notary if you want to make it even more iron clad.
Well, if your dad may not let you take it with you claiming it's his, why would he sign anything saying it's yours? An underhanded way of doing it would be to take it and leave it at a friends house now (that you can trust). When you move out, he won't see it with you so no problem and if he questions you, tell him it's gone for whatever reason. It's not like you're stealing something because it is already yours. If it's in your possession they would have a hard time making you give it back and if times are that tough he wouldn't want to pay the extra money to go to small claims court to try to get it.
A simple receipt from the seller can provide proof of ownership. If you didn't get one, ask your parents to draw one up. If they refuse you may have a civil dispute that can only be settled in court. As to your additional question: "As for having them draw one up, can they just write the holder of the firearm has been transferred from X to X with both of us signing it?" Yes. Unless you suspect trouble down the road (eg. parent accusing you of forging their signature) no need to pay money and drag them to a notary to notarize their signatures. (A notary only witnesses signatures, not documents, proof of ownership etc.) Bill of sale should state from whom the firearm was purchased, the date and location of the transfer, (state and county) amount paid, full description and serial number of the rifle. Be sure to have them sign and date it. You or they can write it by hand or type/print it. Just leave the signature and date fields blank so those can be filled in by hand. Note: Having property insured in your name does not prove or establish legal ownership. Also, removing/changing the physical location of property whose ownership may be in dispute does not change the status of said properties ownership. In fact it could be construed as theft. Follow the established course of action when settling an ownership issue.
You could have the make out a bill of sale if they are willing to do that. Who owns your jeans and tenny runners? Can you prove that? If you have no documentation, you are probably stuck with the old adage, possession is 9/10 ths of the law.
They can't take it and claim it is legally theirs. Because of private transfers, unless you have a bill of sale signed and dated by both parties, there is no legal proof of ownership one way or the other.
Possession being .9 of the law your Dad owns it if he wants to be that way. I have been in similar situations and just remember that AR-15s are not worth hard feelings.....chances are that your parents are on the short end of overall expenses looking back at the big picture.( I just added a new twist )
You can bring your dad to a gun shop and insist they FFL transfer it again to you even though it's not required by law. of course there's also no law saying you can't do that either. it's usually $25 or $35 to FFL transfer.