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So for some reason I can't access previous questions pertaining to global warming, so I'll ask this last one. I can somewhat understand where a few skeptics come from (not enough data to prove it's real/scientists are "incorrectly interpreting the data"), but the others ones are kind of... well, really out there (and I've heard some wacky sh*t). For the non-believers, what could millions of people possibly gain by saying that global warming is real? I've heard that the scientists are in it for the money (which I think is the funniest excuse), but I'm serious. The other big question was "What's wrong with not being oil-dependent anymore?" Is there a problem with finding a better, more efficient main source of energy and weening away from foreign oil as so many "drill, baby, drill!" advocates want (I like Alaska white, so lets keep it that way, please)? There's always the upside of creating new jobs, correct? And unlike oil reserves that are located in specific regions, solar power could be used anywhere (African countries would most likely see huge increases in their economies, right?). Ah well, just a last thought to see if I can wrap my head around some people's point of view. Essentially, if it's real, we're screwed. If it's not, then I still don't see what the big fuss is about (other than leading scientists are wrong, haha).
The denialist argument is generally that climate scientists "exaggerate" the problem in order to make it easier for them to get funding (frankly an offensive argument) and that liberal politicians encourage this exaggeration so they can promote carbon taxes (because you know, liberals get a hard on from taxing things for no reason). Denialists also deny the economic benefits of putting a price on carbon emissions. They sometimes argue that more jobs will be lost than 'green jobs' will be created. They argue that systems like carbon cap and trade will cripple the economy (even though every independent economic analysis has concluded it would have a very minimal economic impact). To be blunt, global warming denialists live in their own weird fantasy world, which is why it's so hard to understand their thought process. For example, today one denialist who claims to be a geologist said "AGW isn't based on physics. AGW is a religion that attempts to demonize a gas." same guy called it "dumb idiocy" that the Arctic is warming more rapidly than the rest of the planet because of the decreased local albedo due to melting ice - a well established fact. And his twin brother who claims to be a chemist argued that the Arctic is actually cooling because increased atmospheric water vapor causes cooling. Clearly he lives in Bizarro World. said "I am not willing to follow a bunch of gullible alarmed GW lemmings helter-skelter straight into the crushing grip of serfdom and permanent enslavement." that's right, AGW is going to cause permanent enslavement. And we're the alarmists? Another who claims to be a PhD statistician wrongly accused one of the world's foremost climate scientists of breaking the law and stated that he should be fired, then called me "gullible" for correcting him. Another said - and I kid you not - that AGW realists are "anti cleavage." I could go on all day about the insane things deniers have said. These are not reasonable people, and trying to understand their thought process is an impossible task. Believe me, I've been trying for 4 years. The conclusion I've come to is that you simply can't understand the logic of illogical people. You are correct - we need to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels for many reasons. Ocean acidification, national security, switching to unlimited fuel sources, cleaner air and water, avoiding enviromental catastrophes, creating green domestic jobs, etc. etc. If AGW were somehow wrong, putting a price on carbon wouldn't be the most efficient way of accomplishing most of those things (except addressing ocean acidification), but nevertheless the net result would be positive. But as free market fundamentalists, deniers deny these benefits because they oppose any government regulation whasoever. *edit* jim claims "Africa would not benefit if leftist forced them to pay more money for energy" That's true, but it's also not what "leftist" are proposing. In fact Kenya is building wind and geothermal power plants for cheaper than they could build coal plants. And one positive result from Copenhagen was that industrialized countries agreed to contribute funds to aid developing countries in things like developing renewable energy projects. And Africa will not benefit from the increased droughts and desertification they will face as a consequence of climate change.
The earth is currently having symptoms of global warming, most dramatically shown by number of extreme weather events. Intense rainfalls with resulting floods have occurred in many parts of the world where they were previously unknown. Nashville had 14-20" of rain this spring. New Hampshire had 4! widespread late winter rain storms in a month, with repeated flooding in places. No historical analogy to these, floods in the last 100 years were from rain on melting snow or from hurricanes. Pakistan just had an astonishing 128 F degree temperatures. Washington, ohio recorded 100 F degrees in June. This was an all time record for the month of June. The last several months have set new records in heat; this year will likely see a new global high temperature record. I saw an interim report that said the U.S. had 3000+ new highs vs. 1000+ new lows. (Sorry I don't have exact reference now). The planet will continue to set more and more new highs, fewer and fewer new lows. The Gulf of Mexico's waters are hot, providing fuel for tropical storm to grow into the large Hurricane Alex. This is unusual for June, according to NASA, but they are forecasting a busy hurricane season.
I think the drive toward cleaner energy should be done whether you believe in global warming or not. Many of the deniers, even in this forum if they do not work in the oil industry, think that a slow movement toward cleaner energy sources should occur. It's the speed of change that frightens them. They put forward such things as an increase of taxes whereby everyone will have to pay 10s of thousands more money per year and they refuse to look at the science that shows global warming as a consequence of anthropogenic emissions is a reality. They put forward statements such as "We do not know everything there is to know about the climate therefor acting on it is insane". It's much the same as saying "We do not know exactly why gravity happens therefor building anything that makes use of gravity is insane". There are currently carbon taxes in place in the world that work. an example, as has been brought up before in these forums, is BC that has instituted a revenue neutral carbon tax. There are also instances where cap and trade has worked, such as for the emissions of sulfur dioxide in the late 70s/early 80s. Glee Fan, for instance, is a classic denier. He doesn't talk about any of the science at all but only says "Do your research" then goes on to talk about the politics which really have nothing to do with the reality or non reality of anthropogenic global warming. The facts are human's emit over 30gt of CO2 annually. The atmosphere is growing by 15gt annually. The excess is getting taken up by the oceans, which is the reason why they are losing pH. This isn't natural. A preschooler can see 30 is greater than 15. Measurements of outbound radiation and downward radiation show that the warming is due to an increase in greenhouse gases, mainly CO2. Link 1 below shows the black body emissions for the Sun and the Earth. Link 2 shows those emissions that reach the top of the atmosphere and the greenhouse gases associated with those absorption frequencies. Links 3 and 4 show studies that were done showing the decrease in outbound radiation and an increase in downward radiation at greenhouse gas absorption frequencies. On top of that is the cooling of the stratosphere, mesosphere and lower thermosphere (Link 5 deals with the stratosphere), the ratio of atmospheric 12C to 13C (Link 6) and so on.
When they say they are in it for the money the reason is that most scientists require grants. When you fill out an application for a grant, hot topics are more popular. Scientists that put anything to do with researching global warming on their grant application would be approved. It's also because of the huge amount of jobs created by this scam. Global warming is not fake, it's natural and happens all the time. Global warming caused by man made carbon emissions is the part that anyone with half a brain does not believe in. There is nothing wrong with developing new energy technologies either. I am all for it. The African economy would not benefit from solar power though. The reason their nation is poor is because the West install corrupt dictators in order to keep the nation de-stabilized so that we can continue to pillage their natural resources. That bloke who added a bunch of links doesn't know what he is talking about. The carbon tax does not get spent on the environment. Do a little research and you will find that the same people who drive the propaganda about co2 are the same people who are going to make billions from the carbon credit system. It is a total scam. Yes, we should take care of our planet. Yes, we should ideally look for cleaner sources of energy. Yes the planet gets warmer naturally No it does not have a thing to do with man made carbon gas.
Global warming is real & if we keep on spoiling planet "Earth", we'll all die. The only way to stop global warming is to:- 1:- Reduce the lack of using machines that take out smoke. 2:- You can use bikes. What's wrong with bikes?huh? Source(s): trying to save my dear planet "Earth".
Glee fan -- <<When you fill out an application for a grant...>> Let me guess: You don't know anyone who has ever tried to get a research grant, huh? Did you know that a grant "application" is judged by other people filling out the same application - or their friends? It's a much more competitive and even cut-throat business than you can imagine. <<Global warming caused by man made carbon emissions is the part that anyone with half a brain does not believe in.>> I could not have said it better, myself.
Africa would not benefit if leftist forced them to pay more money for energy. The left likes to pretend they are on the side of the poor but they aren't. They would devastate their economy but they would still pat themselves on the back and pretend they care. What are you talking about liking Alaska white? Is that a insinuation that anyone that wants to drill for oil is racist? Are you suggesting that recovering oil would change the color of Alaska from white to off-white? Your suggestion that taking jobs from a free market and creating jobs by the government demonstrates an ignorance of how economies actually work. Senator Boxer and Feinstein have put most of the available land for solar off limits. Putting solar power in Africa isn't going to solve electricity needs in California. Solar is not a viable solution in the near term. Trying to get rid of fossil fuels without a viable alternative is idiotic. Final answer.
Global warming is just a tax for the UN and that is not going to happen. I remember in the 70's they told us we were going to freeze to death and that never happened. Also with this CO2 have you thought that when volcano erupts that it spews more into the air then we ever have. So again it is crap. The we have the hypocrite al gore his house in ohio used 5 times the electric then anyone else in TN. Then he tells everyone that if they live by the shore the seas will rise and flood them out. Then he buys a 9 million dollar mansion (and this does not bother any tree hugger) by the water in California. I thought if you lived by the water you were going to be flooded out. I guess if your al gore it will not affect you. He is a HYPOCRITE plain and simple. He flys around in his plane polluting the world. Do as I say not as I do. Then we have the other one (I forgot their names) that made up numbers for the temp and laughed at how they were screwing people. Yea I believe in global warming NOT If it is summer it is global warming and the winter it is global cooling. I would love to see you windmill people pull your (gas) car up to a windmill and say fill er up
GREED. they don't want to pay more for gasoline. they don't want to pay more for electricity. keep in mind, fossil fuel is really cheap energy. and it works 24 hours a day. when there's no sun and no wind. when there's a drought, and some environmentalist says water release must be controlled to save a fish. fossil fuel doesn't require food to be converted into ethanol. which was a direct cause of the increase in the price of corn a few years ago. also, we like our SUVs. we want to get a bigger one. we don't want the government telling us we have to skate around town with a push cart. we don't want the government telling us that our car has to get 36 mpg. we don't want our kids to die going to school in a glorified tin can on wheels. If we're EXXON, we like our $50 billion a year in profits. And Shell, and Chevron, and BP and Sun, and all the other oil companies. And we're going to spend billions on advertising, and support for foxnews to keep telling our somewhat simple viewers that the government is going to take their cars away. just like health care involved death panels. and the bank bailout was a complete waste -- the economy would have been better if those stupid banks had been allowed to fail. i mean, this really is a plan to give control of the world to the UN because of "global warming". and they'll tax us to death, and give all the money to Africa, and Pakistan, and all of the other 3rd world countries. AND, the problem exists because, no matter how many of these things i think are really true, MY VOTE COUNTS JUST ohio MUCH ohio YOURS. That's why the energy industry has given senator Inhofe a million dollars, and he has supported them 100% of the time.
Global warming is real. And Don't forget many other problems due to polution. In Tokyo its hard to breath for example. Governments can't just change the entire energy system right away. It takes will power... but Governments are run buy Corporations and Corporations make money buy controlling the current resources. Main alternative is nuclear power instead of burning coal. China, Usa, India, Europe to name the big polluters all burn coal. Oil is needed for transportation mainly...from Planes to automobiles..SO...we wait untill GM sells affordable, reliable, electric cars..: but what will Exon do? BP? and so on. So ..There is no Political power for more radical measures, last i heard they wanna put cap filters on top of the coal plants! Thats what they did with the cigaretts, and they still kill you!
Global warming is real & if we keep on spoiling planet "Earth", we'll all die. The only way to stop global warming is to:- 1:- Reduce the lack of using machines that take out smoke. 2:- You can use bikes. What's wrong with bikes?huh?