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Some of you might know my opinion on Rose and the HOF, but I have accepted the truth for that, and how gambling is the worst thing possible for baseball. However, I have not seen Rose on ANY top 10, even top 20, list for the greatest hitters of all time. NOT ONE. He is the all-time hits leader with 4,256 hits, and I never see anyone acknowledging it. He can't get into the Hall of Fame, but why don't people recognize that he has more hits than anyone else to ever play the game? I am not saying he is the best hitter of all time, but shouldn't he at least be in the top 20? Ted Williams' list of top 20 hitters of all time has no sign of Rose on it. The major question I am trying to ask is this: Do you think that gambling should erase everything that Rose did in his career?
Everyone knows Rose has the hits record -- thus no one needs to make highlighted mention of it. He also holds the outs record, and no one ever mentions that, for a different reason. Rose was the hitter he was -- lots of singles, good at doubles, but limited power and not all that at taking a walk. When compiling a list of the greatest ever, profligacy is good, but excellence is better, and when the target is "greatest ever" any shortcoming is going to be a significant drawback. Try this. Make a list of your greatest hitters ever -- ten, twenty, 25, not too big -- without including Rose. Rank them. Now see where Rose should fit, and which name you're going to knock off the bottom of the list in order to make space for him. Here, I'll provide a sample list -- you can use it or not -- of ten great hitters, and readers can ponder where Rose should fit. I'm not even using any hard stats, just pulling ten names out of core memory, and other than the first guy the rankings are meaningless, just a collection of nine (and I'll leave out Bonds because his name is such a powderkeg). 1. Ruth 2. Mays 3. Mantle 4. Musial 5. Williams 6. Aaron 7. Pujols 8. Wagner 9. Thomas (Frank, not Gorman or the earlier Frank) 10. Cobb That's ten. If Rose is top ten -- and maybe he's not, maybe he's top twenty in the second ten, add names if you like -- where does he fit, or specifically which name does he bump? Any "top ten" does not have room for eleven, unless we're channeling Spinal Tap. Rose's gambling did not and does not erase his career; it does, however, shine a bad light on him and his character, and that is something that cannot be ignored. Regardless that, though, he cannot be made a better hitter or player than he was. I'm hoping, and recognize it is a faint hope and one years distant, that Suzuki's career has the endurance to let him chase down Rose on the hits list. That'd be awesome. ---------- ????? Rose played in the major leagues for 24 seasons, 1963-86. And, while MVP Awards are merely highly-regarded opinion polls -- they recognize performance, they do not constitute it -- we have to credit Rose with the one he did take home, in 1973.
Rose broke the #1 rule of the game which was put in place after the Black Sox gambling scandal, don't bet on baseball. I have read that there is a sign in every baseball clubhouse about that, including the minor leagues. There is lots of evidence that he did, in fact bet against the Reds team he managed. In no way can that be tolerated. His own teammate Johnny Bench has always been appalled at that fact. Pete has, probably still has a serious gambling problem. In his playing days he spent lots of time at the horse and dog tracks and things got worse over time. His time in the team office was often dominated with calls to bookies. Ted left Pete out of his list on purpose. Of course some people were never big fans. Mickey Mantle said if he hit singles like Pete did he would wear a dress.
Perhaps because Pete Rose wasn't really that great a hitter. He was a good hitter, definitely a guy you'd want in the lineup, but hardly a Hall of Fame caliber player. Let's look at Rose's accomplishments without the rose-tinted lenses. 1) Pete Rose played baseball for 33 years. That's a very...very long time. If he wasn't the hits leader, there would be a problem, really. Ty Cobb, for example, the second guy on that list, did it in 23 seasons; 10 less than Pete Rose. Number 3, Hank Aaron (less than 500 hits behind Rose) did it in 22. More importantly, both players carried a higher career batting average than Rose (and don't even begin to compare Rose's OPS with Aarons). 2) Rose has 0 MVPs. Yeah, he was never even the best player in baseball once during his entire 33 seasons. 3) Rose only won 3 batting titles. For a guy who made a living hitting singles, you'd think he'd have done better than that. Tony Gwynn, another guy who hit only singles, had 8. Not to mention a career batting average 35 points higher than Rose's. I could go on, but I think you get my point. Pete Rose's career is only impressive if you look at his career compilations. When you think 4,256 hits, you think 'wow, that's great'; but if you look at it over 33 years it becomes less impressive. Over 33 years, that's only 128 hits each season. There's a reason Rose isn't listed as an all-time great, and that's because he isn't one. When you stack up his accomplishments, all your left with is a paper tiger. Edit: I don't know how I bombed on the math that badly, but yeah you're right somehow I came up with the wrong total there.
Rose was N.L. Rookie of the Year in 1963 and ended his career in 1986 so he only played 23 years.He had almost 4000 more at bats than Ty Cobb.Don't you think Cobb would have had at least another 600-800 hits based on his hits per at bat pace if he had another 4000 ABs.Pete Rose is the most overrated player in the history of the game.Yes he made the All Star team at a record 5 different positions 2B,LF,RF,3B and 1B.BFD. His lifetime batting average is barely above .300 (.303) and despite what you think are his great accomplishments he will be remembered for just 2 things.His being banned from the HOF and for his stupid action of deliberately hurting Catcher Ray Fosse in the 1970 All Star game. You can probably tell that I am not a big Pete Rose fan.
Pete Rose had a career .784 OPS. The average Hall Of Famer has a .839 OPS. He was a good hitter, but he was below Hall Of Fame level production besides counting stats. Now, I do think being able to produce well for that long and be able to have that kind of durability is ridiculous and amazing, and I do think he is slightly underrated because of the gambling, but he isn't a top 20 hitter.
Well he cheated/gambled(not sure if it really is cheating) and everyone remembers him as the gambler and banned from the MLB. Some people still know him as a record breaker.
It shouldnt take away the fact he hit a ton. He didnt cheat with steroids or anything. Individually he didnt cheat, team wise he did.
No he was great player and gambling didn't alter that. Also he never even bet against his team.BS if you ask me
There is no way his gambling should affect what the man did on field! THERE ARE ALCOHOLICS AND DRUG ADDICTS minnesota SPORTS! DO WE TAKE AWAY THEIR ACCOMPLISHMENTS ON FIELD? LIKE BABE RUTH? NO! AND HE SHOULD BE minnesota HALL OF FAME
Who cares? baseball is boring.